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Cattrina Profile
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Registered: 11-2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 1449
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To make a hybrid key


The Hard & Durable Way

You need:

1. a brass niessen 612A key (or key blank)
2. a brass Schlage Wafer key (or key blank)
3. flux agent for copper welding and copper wire or welding rod (agent inbuilt) for copper/brass
4. gas weld torch or similar
5. fireproof working area
6. good airing (fluxing agent is harmful)
7. metal saw or good pliers

How to:

1. cut the both keys into head and blade parts
2. smooth the cut edges and roughen them
3. lay the key parts on level surface, preferrably on stone material (or thick cheramic), but metal plate (iron) works too
4. 'paint' over the key pieces to make them heat up, be careful not to melt them
5. if the pieces are hot enough the copper wire dipped in flux agent, or the welding rod will melt nicely just by touching the little gap between the key parts
6. use the torch to cut the welding rod and even out the seam
7. let it cool down in peace
8. use knife, sand paper, whatever handy to clean up the seam


HINT: keep the parts heated during the welding
HINT: you can use painter's tape to keep the pieces in place

NOTE: brass keys are usually coated with lacquer, so you must sand all sides around the seam to make cohesion surface

now we have a BRASS hybrid, which is discolored because of the heat.

we have three options to make it look silvery

1. spray paint it
2. tin it
3. electrocoat it

whatever method you use, remember to wash the key with dish-soap beforehand.

Cool & Fragile Way

You need:

1. a brass niessen 612A key (or key blank)
2. a brass Schlage Wafer key (or key blank)
3. soldering iron & soldering tin rods & flux agent
4. thin copper wire
5. pliers or metal saw

How to:

1. same as above, cut the keys in half
2. assemble the key parts in position
3. cut a few little strips of copper wire and make a 'bridge' between the two pieces
4. use any method to heat the key parts
5. wet the key parts with flux agent
6. let the tin melt and cover the key and copper wire
7. when all parts are covered, use the soldering iron to smooth the tin

HINT: keep the parts heated during the soldering
HINT: you can use painter's tape to keep the pieces in place

NOTE: brass keys are usually coated with lacquer, so you must sand all sides around the seam to make cohesion surface

Fake Approximate

You need:

1. a brass niessen 612A key (or key blank)
2. a brass Schlage Wafer key (or key blank)
3. clay
4. a stove and old pan
5. tin & fluxing agent or soldering tin
6. copper wire


How to:

1. you do not necessarily need to cut the keys in two pieces
2. use the two keys to make an impression on the clay
3. cut a few pieces of the copper wire or make a sweet key-shaped frame out of it. You should at least support the key fob hole
4. melt the tin in the old pan on your stove
5. pour first layer of the tin in the mold
6. apply (fast!) the copper wire pieces in the melt tin
7. pour more tin to cover the wire
8. let it cool down in peace
9. use whatever tool you got to clean up the key and possibly fix the look


Last edited by Cattrina, 1/12/2011, 7:56 am


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1/12/2011, 7:40 am Link to this post Send Email to Cattrina   Send PM to Cattrina
 
Cattrina Profile
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Re: The Key


]Tom's background information about the Niessen keys

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2/4/2012, 3:36 am Link to this post Send Email to Cattrina   Send PM to Cattrina
 
whatchitfoool Profile
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Re: The Key


Here is some information I have found on the Schlage "blade" part of The Key, hope it helps some people out:


Old A series (type where you had to dismantle whole thing to get at cylinder) used this as alternative to pin tumbler. Discontinued some years ago. Cylinder has 8 wafers and uses three types of wafer. There are two different types of plug. Key is double sided and has an end cut on one side or the other. The end wafer is called a 'master' wafer ad is retracted by the uncut end of the key. The opening is restricted so a blank cannot be fully inserted. Schlage produced two differet blanks
with the end pre-cut. The wafer can only be inserted one way, hence the two different plug types.
Apart from the end cut, there are 4 other cuts (3 in older models - pre mid 1950's) never opposite each other. This gave 640 differs for each end cut position - 1280 in all. 'Combination' wafers which coud be inserted either way were placed were placed where the cuts were and only restrained the plug in the absence of a cut. 'Series' wafers were placed in the other 3 positions. These normally restrained the plug unless retracted by a blank portion of the key. The 'series' wafers could be inserted one way only (the opposite way compared with the 'master' wafer). The cylinder can be masterkeyed by making a masterkey which had cuts opposite each other. It could have 4 pairs of cuts (16 differs) 5 pairs of cuts (80 differs) or 6 pairs of cuts (240 differs). In the latter 2 cases 1 or 2 'series' wafers has to be omitted. All three series wafers could be omitted in theory but that was against policy. Finally a masterkey could be made to control 480 locks by using a 'series' wafer in the final position and with the masterkey uncut in the end position. Disadvantages were limited number of masterkey differs and the ease at which a masterkey can be made from any key from the installation (or indeed from a stray key with the correct end cut and no cuts 'under' the series wafers.

Meaning of number stamped on key;
1st digit 1 or 2 - position of 'master' wafer cut (3 or 4 if 'series' wafer used)
2nd digit 0 (or position of series wafer for masterkeyed locs)
3rd - 6th digits - positions of 4 cuts numbered off as 1/2 3/4 5/6 7/8
9/0 1/2 3/4
eg 101523


Sounds like you've got an old Schlage wafer lock. I think they used SC-6 or SC-22 blanks (Curtis or EZ numbers). They come apart from the back. If memory serves, there will be four cuts plus the "master cut" on the end. It's a binary 1 or 0 thing, there is a cut or not a cut. I've worked on a few of them twenty or so years ago. The course I took from Locksmith Institute had a lesson on them. I may still have the old course materials, in storage.
Worth noting, In the 25 years I've been in the trade, I've seen Schlage wafer locks maybe four or five times. And usually those were ones I was replacing and put in Kwikset. So, these are not common.
Please check if the lock comes with a springlatch (most did) or a deadlatch. The latches are probably interchangable with the modern Schlage A series latches.

 
5/5/2012, 4:21 pm Link to this post Send Email to whatchitfoool   Send PM to whatchitfoool Blog
 
Vintage Fenrir Profile
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Re: The Key


Wait, Niessen 612A? Oops... I went to my local locksmith shop asking for an Ilco 612A. When they couldn't find it in stock, they said they would spend some time to research it and call me back when they had found something... I need to call them and tell them the mistake.

Also, Jintosh, were you still looking for the Niessen 612A to perfect your sold replicas?

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4/25/2013, 1:28 am Link to this post Send Email to Vintage Fenrir   Send PM to Vintage Fenrir Blog
 
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Re: The Key


quote:

Also, Jintosh, were you still looking for the Niessen 612A to perfect your sold replicas?





Ultimately, my Prop Key Replica is good as is. It is a single cast replica. Meaning ONE PIECE. A true replica would be if the Collector braised a Niessen 612A to Schlage key shaft and the result was two keys stuck together. Most people would not go to this length to get a prop replica.

I would just like to offer a Niessen 612A in case someone WANTS to do that. And just having a 612A key would be cool. emoticon

Niessen has been out of business for [sign in to see URL] to a key shop will not produce results. Unfortunately.

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Jintosh, The KeyMaster, OA, RMC

Prop Replicas at http://www.TheLostRoom.org
4/25/2013, 12:17 pm Link to this post Send Email to Jintosh   Send PM to Jintosh
 
Vintage Fenrir Profile
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Re: The Key


It's worth a shot asking. The shop has a giant wall of keys from a large amount of companies ranging from the 1920s to today, including those old keys that we don't use anymore because they are super insecure like the one used by the order to open the door to the red room with the objects.

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4/26/2013, 3:52 am Link to this post Send Email to Vintage Fenrir   Send PM to Vintage Fenrir Blog
 
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Re: The Key


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Indeed. Worth a shot. Take a picture of Chuck's key so they know what to look for.



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Jintosh, The KeyMaster, OA, RMC

Prop Replicas at http://www.TheLostRoom.org
4/26/2013, 12:48 pm Link to this post Send Email to Jintosh   Send PM to Jintosh
 
Maus Profile
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Re: The Key


Hi everyone, I recently started the search for my next object and even though the key seems to be a tough one I've searched for the 2 specific keys used on the show and got lucky and found these two. I'm sure that they're not the correct versions from the show but I think they are pretty close and I'll be happy if I can make a key from them.

I'd love to get your feedback on what you would do in my situation. My first thought is to try and do one of Cattrina's instructions from this post:

,offset=20#post17508]link to post

I don't have the option of doing the cutting or soldering myself and I'm not sure what kind of business to approach to get the cutting and soldering done, is it a metal working kind of place? Any thoughts on what I should do would be great.

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1/29/2015, 1:59 pm Link to this post Send Email to Maus   Send PM to Maus Blog
 
homelancer Profile
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Re: The Key


@Jintosh

Hi. I sent you a PM. I'm not sure if it works.

Anyway, do you still sell the The Lost Room Key?

If so, how much would it cost including shipping to the Philippines by USPS First Class Mail International / First Class Package International Service ?

Thanks.

5/4/2018, 8:38 am Link to this post Send Email to homelancer   Send PM to homelancer Blog
 


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